Part 1 – An interview with Dan Cruver and John Pletcher

With this two-part, interview-style article, authors Dan Cruver and John Pletcher dialog regarding J.R.R. Tolkien’s unique use of the music and the water. Enjoy their banter and insights!

1. What are some favorite scenes where water and waterfalls show up in Tolkien’s legendarium?

Dan:
First, please forgive me, but my answer jumps ahead by combining water and music. I just couldn’t help myself. There is an obscure poem that Tolkien first wrote in 1915 (he wrote three versions of it) that uses the imagery of water and music in a hauntingly beautiful way. It’s one of those very melancholy poems that sneaks into a corner of your mind and refuses to leave. You can find it in The Book of Lost Tales Part 1 (p. 26; Mass Market Paperback). Notice both the italicized and bolded text.

When bannered summer is unfurled
Most full of music are thine elms –
A gathered sound that overwhelms
The voices of all other trees.
Sing then of elms, beloved Kortirion,
How summer crowds their full sails on,
Like clothed masts of verdurous ships,
A fleet of galleons that proudly slips
Across lang sunlit seas.

Actually, if you noticed, Tolkien combines water, music, and trees! Surprise! Surprise! I find the imagery absolutely captivating. To me, this poem captures Tolkien’s love of all three. If Tolkien tried to communicate this in any other form than a poem, it would have fallen flat. But in a poem, my mind can actually picture trees gliding across a sea under sunny skies.

Seeing water, music, and trees appear together in a poem written in 1915 helps me better appreciate the beauty of each when found in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

John:
Okay, I have to admit, Dan, I originally saw this opening question like a super-easy, slow-pitch softball toss. But of course, you had to take us right into fast-pitch, curveball country. Thanks a lot, man!

Now sincerely, that’s a wonder-filled view. And such an ancient, youthful, primal glimpse into Tolkien’s command of all three classic Legendarium commodities. SO good!

What you have shared actually reminds me of another stunning place this trifecta shows up. One of Tolkien’s earliest writings—one of my favorites—also masterfully interweaves the scenery of river and trees, accompanied by poetic songs. These three components twist and turn all throughout this also-very-old short story. I am thinking of that tragic, bitter tale of vengeance, The Story of Kullervo. John Garth places its writing somewhere late in 1914. Tolkien himself recalled it as early as 1912. It’s stunning to realize that both your 1915 poem from The Book of Lost Tales and Kullervo reveal these early staples of Tolkien creativity.

Okay, time out. I see what you did there, Dan. You coaxed me to play some hardball with you. Let me bring us back to something that’s a bit more “pick-up, backyard ball” but still very meaningful.

Our original question simply asked about water and waterfalls. I find it stunningly beautiful that Bilbo, Gandalf, and the dwarves descended toward the Last Homely House in “the fair valley of Rivendell where Elrond lives.”

“Here it is at last!” [Gandalf] called . . . They could hear the voice of hurrying water at a rocky bed at the bottom; the scent of trees was in the air; and there was a light on the valley-side across the water . . . and the smell of the pine trees . . . “Hmmm! it smells like elves” thought Bilbo, and he looked up at the stars. They were burning bright and blue. Just then there came a burst of song like laughter in the trees:

O! What are you doing,
And where are you going?
Your ponies need shoeing!
The river is flowing!

And of course, the Elves continued their jolly song (The Hobbit, 46-49).

Oh wow! Now look at that! You’re so right, Dan. It’s not just moving water. Here also, we see the beautiful threesome on brilliant display. I find it very stunning how Tolkien loved to employ all three—rushing water, music, and trees. And it seems to permeate his tales.

2. So there is a very unique role that music plays in the creation of Middle-earth, as Tolkien shares in the opening of The Silmarillion. What’s the role and what’s extra intriguing or significant?

Dan:
I love this question because it allows me to talk about one of my favorite topics in Tolkien’s Legendarium. Music’s role is that Eru/Ilúvatar uses it to create the World. Music not only predates the creation of the world, it’s also the means by which the World was begun.

In the beginning Eru, the One, who in the Elvish tongue is named Ilúvatar, made the Ainur of his thought; and they made a great Music before him. In this Music the World was begun; for Ilúvatar made visible the song of the Ainur, and they beheld it as a light in the darkness (The Silmarillion, 25).

One element I find most intriguing is a description I didn’t pick up on until years after I read it for the first time. About the song of the Ainur made visible, Tolkien adds, “and they beheld it as a light in the darkness” (emphasis mine). Yes, the Music was made visible, but in what way? The Music was like light moving out into the Void, into the darkness. That’s such a wonderful image to me. It communicates something of the power of Music. We all know the power of light to drive away and conquer darkness. But by comparing Music to light, Tolkien gives us a very tangible image that helps us understand one of the reasons Music is universally loved. Just as light enables us to see and enjoy beauty and, as a consequence, to experience wonder, so does Music. A life devoid of Music is a life that lacks. In The Silmarillion, Music went out into the Void and created beauty that can be enjoyed.

I’ve noticed that in these weeks of COVID-19 quarantine, I’ve found myself wanting to listen to more music than I usually do. And when I stopped to consider why that is, I realized that the Coronavirus is a metaphorical darkness of sorts. It’s transported our lives into an isolating void. But Music is a powerful way to bring light and beauty and wonder into our current darkness. So, I think this question about music is very relevant to our experience in this pandemic.

John:
That’s rich, truly rich. I’ll join you in the admission that I’m listening to more music right now. It’s like I need something of a life soundtrack to emanate brighter hope. We all need such light, now more than ever.

In tandem with what you are sharing about Ilúvatar creating via music and that music being observed as light in the darkness, this hits me. The opening scene in AINULINDALË, we read of the Ainur, as they sang: “Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony.” They started out singing, and then Ilúvatar called them together and declared to them the “mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful than he had yet revealed; and the glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Ilúvatar and were silent” (The Silmarillion, 3). Eru/Ilúvatar then immediately involved them in taking up the great score, with the aim that they embellish it. And he even says: “But I will sit and hearken, and be glad that through you great beauty has been wakened into song.”

So, I am blown away with this creation-song cycle that commenced. Eru created song. The Ainur listened, understood more, and sensed greater harmony. Eru declared his mighty theme—his musical masterpiece—and the Holy Ones’ response was amazement. Their next move is akin to worship; they bow in silence. And they express wonder, which I like to think of as holy awe. We might say “holy wow!” But then here is where the cycle stuns me. Eru commissioned them to take up the song. It’s like he said, “Now go for it! Your turn. Take over, and make it even better.” And he states his intention to sit, listen, and enjoy their beauty being wakened into song.

This reminds me, Dan. Our friend, Lisa Coutras, picks up these very threads of beauty and wonder as revealed in creative expression in her book Tolkien’s Theology of Beauty. I can’t wait for our upcoming interview with Lisa in a few months!

We’ll pick up right here with Part 2 and tackle a couple more questions next week.

Dan:
John, your thoughts above are music to my hears! Beautiful.

1. What are some favorite scenes where water and waterfalls show up in Tolkien’s legendarium?

Dan:
First, please forgive me, but my answer jumps ahead by combining water and music. I just couldn’t help myself. There is an obscure poem that Tolkien first wrote in 1915 (he wrote three versions of it) that uses the imagery of water and music in a hauntingly beautiful way. It’s one of those very melancholy poems that sneaks into a corner of your mind and refuses to leave. You can find it in The Book of Lost Tales Part 1 (p. 26; Mass Market Paperback). Notice both the italicized and bolded text.

When bannered summer is unfurled
Most full of music are thine elms –
A gathered sound that overwhelms
The voices of all other trees.
Sing then of elms, beloved Kortirion,
How summer crowds their full sails on,
Like clothed masts of verdurous ships,
A fleet of galleons that proudly slips
Across lang sunlit seas.

Actually, if you noticed, Tolkien combines water, music, and trees! Surprise! Surprise! I find the imagery absolutely captivating. To me, this poem captures Tolkien’s love of all three. If Tolkien tried to communicate this in any other form than a poem, it would have fallen flat. But in a poem, my mind can actually picture trees gliding across a sea under sunny skies.

Seeing water, music, and trees appear together in a poem written in 1915 helps me better appreciate the beauty of each when found in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings…